| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
   |
Posted - 2011.08.19 07:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 07:52:12
 Originally by: Serpent Kamri
It's basically complete immunity from danger while having tremendous advantages and having the luxury of deciding who you want to attack where, when and at what range, and even though you can stay pretty safe by ratting in groups, a lot of people think it's slightly too bonkers on the whole 'risk vs reward' spectrum and I cannot honestly blame them.
p. much |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 07:57:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Thornat
Ok so one more question.
How does a single lone wolf cloaker pop anything? I mean strictly speaking I can't think of anything I fly a lone wolf cloaker could actually threaten. How exactly are these guys getting enough DPS to get through a PvE ship or ratting ship designed specifically for tanking damage (which I'm assuming is still the standard setup for PvE ships).?
They fit cynos, natch. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:10:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Signal11th
Humm I know its really hard to organize and skill for but you could always use the fabled "bait" ship.
lmao are you serious? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Signal11th
Edited by: Signal11th on 19/08/2011 08:19:14
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Signal11th
Humm I know its really hard to organize and skill for but you could always use the fabled "bait" ship.
lmao are you serious?
It's called being proactive instead of docking up and whining in forums. Surely an alliance the size of Atlas can organize the baiting and killing of a lone cloaker even if he has a cyno.
Okay, so you've never actually arranged a "bait" for an AFK cloaker before. Got it. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:36:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 08:37:09
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
They don't want to do that. They want to keep the bots active and rolling in the isk.
Afk cloakers totally ruin this so its far far easier to whinge on the forums and hope ccp nerfs cloaking.
Ironically, I've made billions off of cloaking. But I'd be lying if I said it took effort or was challenging in any real way (like anything involving cloaking). |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Signal11th
err yes. fly a tank ship around wait for him to turn up kill or be killed, if he lights the cyno counter drop them with your super caps/carriers/sub cap ..ohh sorry your atlas you don't have any. God mate you such a nub it's ridiculous, you spout the usual rubbish that you hear from all the whiners without actually trying anything or thinking you such a leet player just thinking about things is enough.
Try doing sometimes it actually works!
This is hilarious, keep it up. Have you realized the hole in this plan yet? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
I bet my way was more challenging than setting a bot loose in nullsec farming rats.
You mean those bots that warp to a safe and go into AFK cloak mode? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:49:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 08:49:26
Originally by: Signal11th
Well yes Atlas don't have any supercaps. I'm going to stop feeding your troll.
Do you seriously need a hint as to what the flaw in having a large standing fleet waiting for an AFK cloaker to show up is? This is so sad. This is what happens when people feel informed from skimming evenews24 |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Signal11th
Not really, surely you have 5 or 10 people in your system that can drop ratting and suit up so to speak, ok you run the risk of getting hotdropped but in what 2 years in various places it happened once and people lost 4 ships whoppee.
Okay let's play this scenario out because this isn't sinking in. We got an AFK cloaker in system and we have a strong fleet full of guys ready and waiting at a POS and hell even a titan ready to bridge into this system; billions of isk have been sunk into this project to kill a 40mil cyno-fit AFK Cloaker.
So I'm sitting here in my tanked abaddon or whatever with a cyno of my own fit, as per your suggestion, warping from belt to belt, waiting along with dozens of guys to get this guy out of our system and defend our space against all comers, right?
So we're waiting, and waiting, and waiting because, oh yeah this guy is AFK; asleep, or at work, or whatever while dozens of players and tons of hardware are being used for hours on end idling waiting for him to uncloak. After 4-5 or more hours, the fleet disbands having wasted everyone's time, time that could have been spent going on CTAs, or roaming, etc. Maybe we'll have better luck tomorrow and form another fleet hoping he's actually at his computer to even notice the bait ship. But probably not.
I mean Signal, we've all had the idea of the dedicated "bait" ship to catch AFK cloakers at one point or another. I've been on several attempts at it But when you threw out the idea of "keep a super fleet on standby AFK cloaker" as a viable counterstrategy and proof that cloak is somehow balanced or whatever, I knew you were talking theorycraft there bud. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sjugar
On the other hand, I don't really see what you can do without hurting the legit non-AFK cloakers who can sit in systems for hours, days on end just to get that one kill and strike fear in their victims hearts.
Eh, just disable auto-repeat on the cloaking module and make its cycle timer last 300 seconds. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:18:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 09:18:50
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Alternately you could just pve with cheap insured ships and not give a rats arse about the afk cloaker if he turns out to be hostile with a fleet waiting to cyno in on your ratting raven or mining covetor.
Okay, "let the enemy destroy your ship", another reasonable idea from the fertile mind of Tokyo Rose. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sjugar
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
So we're waiting, and waiting, and waiting because, oh yeah this guy is AFK; asleep, or at work, or whatever while dozens of players and tons of hardware are being used for hours on end idling waiting for him to uncloak. After 4-5 or more hours, the fleet disbands having wasted everyone's time, time that could have been spent going on CTAs, or roaming, etc.......
Maybe you should have done just that. Leave the cloaker be and go out roaming and rofl at your carebears who are a waste for any pvp-alliance anyhow.
Hmm yes, maybe the "standing anti-AFK cloaker fleet" was an ill-considered idea after all, I agree. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 09:33:26
Originally by: Thornat
I really don't understand what your after to be honest. I'm going through your post trying to figuire out what part of evading, trapping and dealing with cloakers you have trouble with. I mean if you think a cloaker is in a system, move to the next system.
So far the options offered are "surrender the space and move somewhere else", or "let the enemy destroy my ship and just try to mitigate the cost as much as possible". Why is so offensive to some to point out that the cloak is effectively an invulnerability button under the current EVE game mechanics? I mean, I've made most of my profits using cloaked haulers myself; but I still feel the mechanic is unbalanced. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Signal11th
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Sjugar
On the other hand, I don't really see what you can do without hurting the legit non-AFK cloakers who can sit in systems for hours, days on end just to get that one kill and strike fear in their victims hearts.
Eh, just disable auto-repeat on the cloaking module and make its cycle timer last 300 seconds.
Agree with you on this one! but I would like a visable alert to say the cloak is off. the amount of times I've been uncloaked without realising it is unreal.
That seems fair; I've done that a lot myself when warping to WHs. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:41:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 09:43:07
Continue elaborating your really bad idea.
It's like the "standing anti-AFK cloaker fleet", but includes the losses of several ships as a prereq. I am intrigued, do continue. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 10:02:09
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Ok lets spell it out for you in simple easy to understand terms.
If your afk cloaker turns out to be an actual hostile threat you bait him with easy kills that do nothing to your bottom line past a few losses no one cars about on the corp killboard.
Once he is feeling safe you pull the trigger on the trap.
How is this so hard to understand? 
Here's the flaws in that scheme.
There's no real "trap" that counters say a covert cyno hot drop other then having a standing fleet of your own. Having a standing fleet of several people waiting idly for one person who might be 5-6 hours before he gets on the keyboard (if at all that day) is absurd and impractical.
But let's say I get him, I've fed him several BS's to do it and used a vague "trap" that I spent like 10 hours per day over the course of several days in preparation to spring on this one guy, ignoring everything else happening in the alliance to do this, but it succeeded and he's gone. He shows up half an hour later in the exact same cheap ship cloaked up and AFK again now aware of this trap, whatever it is. Now what? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Signal11th
I know how annoying this can be but I never really found it that much of a hardship. It was one of the many prices I paid for living in 0.0.
I just got on with it to be honest. It was something I expected to happen and whne it did I made alternative ways to make money.
Yeah, whole swarms of dedicated AFK cloakers like Noir. and DNS would blanket regions during the Catch War. You kind of have to find alternative ways of making ISK (actually I just ratted in unclaimed systems, but whatever). But just because I can deal with it doesn't mean I have to like it. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:26:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 10:29:16
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
If your cheap insured ships are getting killed by a no longer afk cloaking hostile then it seems to me forming a standby fleet to pwn him or whatever he cynos in has an excellent chance to get some action.
Yeah see this is where I can tell you've never actually tried to put this theory into practice before. Guys employing the AFK cloak tactic, especially mercs on contract, will go AFK in between one or several hours as SOP immediately after a kill. They aren't stupid, and hoping they're greedy to the point they won't think something is up with the guy who keeps losing several ratting ships in the same system over say a week is a gamble. They only need a few kills a day to render a system 'unsafe', after all. Stretch that out over a month and it adds up.
So you're sitting there cloaked next to a bait ship in an interdictor for one, two, four, etc hours hoping one pilot will uncloak. This is unreasonable. Expecting several others to do the same in case of a cyno is impossible. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
So someone was more dedicated than you?
Sorry mate but thats not an excuse to petition ccp to change core game mechanics.
I can acknowledge Noir. as a solid, dedicated corp even though I've fought them several times, while still disagreeing about game mechanics. When I used cloaks myself to zip across wormholes and make craploads of cash, I thought they were overpowered then too even though they benefited me at the time. I have lots of ideas about how I feel Eve could be improved, some of which benefit me and some of which that don't. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jemima Puddle****
Feel free to leave 0.0 if you are not prepared to make any effort to secure your systems.
0/10 |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jemima Puddle****
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Jemima Puddle****
Feel free to leave 0.0 if you are not prepared to make any effort to secure your systems.
0/10
I assume that is a rating of how willing you are to try and take responsibility for securing your systems because it would match with what you are saying. If you are implying I am trolling then it may surprise you to realise that I simply disagree with your inability to accept responsibility or acknowledge 0.0 involves risk.
1/10, actually 0.0 is pretty risk-free if you fit a ship with a cloak, which is what I do. |
| |
|